When people hear the term “millennial,” they often associate the generation ranging from ages 18-34 as “entitled,” “trophy generation,” “me generation,” and many more subjective and typically negative terms. But is this an accurate reflection of the generation that is likely to make up 33% of the workforce in just a few short years? Lacey Halpern, Katherine Thomas, and Brandon Laws (all Millennials) of Xenium HR discuss why people often get Millennials wrong and how they can be a truly great asset in business. Listen in for a fun discussion on one of the most fascinating generations of our time.
Give us a review on iTunes and be entered to win a free book and/or
take our survey and be entered to win a free book!
Brandon: Welcome to the HR for Small Business Podcast, this is your host, Brandon Laws. Welcome back for another episode and thanks for the download today. I have 2 guests with me, both returning – Katherine Thomas, she’s an HR Representative at Xenium, we did a podcast on emotional intelligence and you should go check that episode out, it was awesome. And everybody’s favorite, Lacey Halpern, Senior HR Business Partner at Xenium and she has got lots of episodes, so go back and listen to Lacey there.
We are talking about Millennials today; this episode is all about Millennials. We all ran across several articles about working with Millennials in the workplace and all these “crazy” habits that they have. Lacey ran across one article in particular that we are going to frame up the discussion for, but we will dive in other things Millennials-related. It’s called “Six Reasons Millennials Are Actually the Best Workers.” Very controversial, right, Lacey?
Lacey: It is, yes!
Brandon: Before we dive into the Q&A discussion, there were 6 points in this article, for the 6 reasons obviously:
- They are too big for their britches
- They just don’t communicate the way you do
- They expect things to happen instantly
- They expect too much
- They think differently from you
- They are obsessed with technology
So those were the main 6 points in the article, this was written in a Forbes article in May 16, 2014, so quite a long time ago but I think a lot of this still applies. So Lacey, I want to kick this off with you. Of these points that were made in the article, what do you think sticks out the most?
Lacey: I think the thing I hear the most about from families and my clients and managers is the communication piece, how Millennials communicate. I mean we hear other stuff, stereotypes, like that they are lazy and things like that but the communication piece is the one that stands out the most for me.
Brandon: Let’s pull the thread on that, just a hair. If you think communication sticks out and it’s so different from the rest of the non-millennials, what’s so different about the way they communicate?
Lacey: I think the frustrations that people have are similar to some of the other points, it’s the speed at which communication happens for Millennials, I think technology, too, so different means of communication. I have had managers, supervisors say – They can’t have a face-to-face conversation with me, they don’t make eye contact and things like that. So the means through which they communicate—using technology, social media, email, all of the platforms, and I am not even super familiar with them but I have clients that have these chat rooms type forums for their employees to use that maybe somebody who’s not a Millennial might struggle with – those are the kind of things that stand out.
Brandon: Before we go any further, I should mention to listeners that we are all Millennials. I am 31 which put me probably on the upper end of the Millennials group, and the categorization of Millennials is age 18-34 is what I found, and that represents about 75 million people, again according to the source that I found. 75 million people in the U.S., and I think Lacey found something that says 80 million, so bottom line is 1 in 3 workers in the next 3 years are going to be Millennials. That’s crazy, right? That’s a huge group of people. Katherine, you are newer to the workforce, so you are on the lower end of the Millennials, do you mind disclosing where you are at as far as age? I think for listeners this is very contextual obviously.
Katherine: I am 24.
Brandon: And then, Lacey, you are…?
Lacey: Also 31.
Brandon: So two 31’s so on the upper end of the Millennial age range and then Katherine is on the lower end. Katherine, talk about the point of “too big for your britches.” I think Millennials are often seen as a group of people that are entitled, they are not adult-like, they need to be handheld, parents come to interviews—I have never actually seen that.
Katherine: I haven’t either!
Brandon: So we hear those things and it’s kind of laughable, but I am wondering from your point of view, you have been out of college now for a year or two. What’s your perspective on the point “being too big for your britches?” The point in this article was that they are actually very sophisticated and they are well-versed on a lot of issues and are very smart, what do you think about that?
Katherine: I would say socially we are very well-versed on what’s happening in the world and it’s harder maybe for Millennials to separate that from work. So to us, life and work merge. And I guess the high expectations thing, I think that comes from just knowing what’s going on in the world and wanting to have that same kind of impact in the workplace.
Lacey: Yeah, I totally agree. I think, too, that information is at our fingertips and it sort of always has been with the internet. I do remember, though, having to do some research projects with encyclopedias. So it has not all been the internet for me, but information is just there and you can easily find it and I think because of that, this population of employees that are out in the workforce has a lot of knowledge. And they want to share that, they want to make a difference, they want to contribute and that “too big for my britches” thing maybe comes across because they are being stifled. Maybe there is opportunity for a company to let a Millennial really demonstrate the impact that they can have.
Brandon: You and I, Lacey, we are sort of in the upper end, so I remember high school and college where we weren’t allowed to source Wikipedia and all these other online sources because it’s the internet, it’s not credible at all, but that’s changed completely. I think when you crowdsource information you have better information. Not always accurate but still better. So I think Millennials as they grew up in this native digital era, they are more resourceful and I think that’s where this “being too big for your britches” comment comes in is that they are so resourceful, almost sometimes more than somebody who didn’t grow up in the digital era. What do you guys think about that?
Lacey: Yeah, I think that’s true. And for older workers, I think there tends to be this mentality of you’ve got to pay your dues, so you saw a lot more people staying with jobs for a really long time. There were pensions and retirement. My father-in-law retired from a company, he was there for 30 years. That doesn’t happen as much anymore. A lot of companies don’t offer retirement benefits like that, so the incentive isn’t there. If I come into a company and maybe my plan isn’t to stay there for more than a couple of years, I am going to come in, I want to demonstrate my impact. I think to somebody who’s stuck it out, worked for a company for longtime—maybe that’s how they interpret that.
Katherine: Yeah, and I think values are different. It’s no question that we grew up with different family education, parenting was different, and generational values change so that has a big impact on what we want out of work, what our value is, and then what our values are.
Brandon: We just talked about how 1 in 3 people will, in 3 years, be a Millennial in the workplace. When you talk about values and what’s important to you in the workplace—Katherine, you talked about that the integration of the work and the personal life—how does that shape the way work is done and the way that employers need to think about what’s important to people in the workplace? What do you guys think?
Katherine: One thing that comes to mind is the flexible work schedule, that’s super common now because it allows people to still feel like they can get their work done and be effective but have flexibility in their life and maybe not feel tied to a desk all day. Or, maybe some people work better at home and they are maybe happier and then are more efficient when they get the opportunity to do that a little.
Brandon: Can you give us an example of something that somebody like yourself would like as a flexible work day so you could integrate both your personal and work life together?
Katherine: Well, it also depends on positions, and I guess what’s expected, but at Xenium we see, Oh my gosh I have this appointment to go to, so I am going to take off early today but I am going to finish up when I get back from my appointment at home tonight or I will come in early tomorrow. I think lot of employers are doing that. I think that’s really common not just because it accommodates things that come up in life but because it eliminates that stress. Going back to that values comment I think that something big that people are asking for and not just hoping for is quality of life. If I am not stressed out all day because I know I have the flexibility to do what I need to do with work but also get personal stuff done, that’s going to improve my quality of life and my overall happiness and efficiency at work.
Lacey: Yeah, and I think that maybe is where the entitlement stuff comes from is somebody who has worked in an environment where you did the 8 to 5, you took your 30 minute lunch, you punched in and punched out, there wasn’t work from home. The notion that somebody would feel like they deserved this benefit of flexibility…you have to shift your mindset – that’s what I tell supervisors. What’s the cost of allowing somebody to do that versus the benefit to having a productive, happy, thriving employee that’s contributing more to your business? It’s just really shifting the mindset that it’s not that a Millennial thinks they deserve that more than you, it’s just something that’s important to them. Not just people that have kids and families, I think it’s been traditional for employers to maybe be a little more flexible for people like that but there are a lot of Millennials that are choosing to delay their families and have kids later, and I really believe they should have the same flexibility and benefits that somebody who maybe chooses to have kids earlier in life does.
Brandon: I have always found that with business it has to be mutually beneficial on both sides to really work, and when you talk about Millennials demanding or been entitled to something, I think it’s a harsh way to look at it. If you as an employer are saying this is how it’s been, this is how we are always going to treat our employees, no flexibility because we need to do this and you say that for so long and now you have this different generation popping up in the workforce, what is that going to do to you as a company? You probably can’t acquire any new talent because now the people that you are going after and need don’t share the same values as you. So is that a risk as an employer?
Lacey: Absolutely. I think you become stagnant and everybody talks about the war for talent and with 1 in 3 worker age people in a few years being Millennials, employers are going to have to shift. And it’s not about letting everybody work from home, there are ways to provide flexible schedules that doesn’t involve that. It’s letting somebody who wants to work out during their lunch take a longer lunch and make up the time later. It’s allowing people to come in a little bit later because traffic in Portland is so terrible and it’s just easier, you get a more productive person who doesn’t come in fried from driving for 90 minutes. Little things like that that just allow people to integrate their work and personal life, because let’s be honest, we don’t shut off when we go home, right? My email is on my phone, I am connected, I want to be available to support my clients and the people who report to me.
Brandon: That’s a keyword, you want to.
Lacey: Exactly, because I feel valued, I feel like the company cares about me and so because of that I want to give back.
Brandon: It’s totally a generational thing because I think, and this is totally generalizing, but I think when you look at somebody who is in a different generation, they may want to just completely shut off and say I don’t owe them nothing, I am going to go home and I’m going to completely check out. I don’t blame anybody for that but I think the wants and needs are different for different generations. Millennials want to feel connected to the values and the end result of the business. We like being a part of that. I think that’s what it is, we like being a part of something special. I think that’s why we care about politics and other business related things.
Lacey: And it’s not just a Millennial thing because I know plenty of Millennials that do want to just shut it off when they go home and I really believe it is 100% related to them not feeling connected to the purpose of the company and the vision of the place where they are working, and they are going to give their 8 hours a day and that’s it because they are not getting anything in return.
Katherine: Yeah.
Brandon: I think that could be controlled by an employer to a certain extent. What are some of the things that an employer can do to help their employees feel tied to the outcome?
Lacey: Communicating the values of the company, where the company is going, being transparent about financial information to the extent that you can be, really helping employees understand how the work they are doing impacts the business down the road, helping make those connections. Those are some things that come to mind.
Katherine: Get to know your employees. When you have a relationship with them, and this doesn’t have to be just a company of all Millennials. You could have all age groups and if you feel like you are investing in your employees, building rapport and getting to know each other not just on a professional level but so they really feel like they know each other – that makes me feel more connected to work and then I feel even more devoted to doing well to support my coworkers and all of that.
Brandon: Talk about change. Millennials oftentimes, and it’s not true for everybody because I have been at one company for 8 years, Lacey – 10 years, Katherine you are already 2 years. Millennials tend to change jobs faster. You see a resume that may have 10 jobs on it by the time you are interviewing somebody. I am going to put myself in this camp, we like instant gratification, I think that’s pretty common for Millennials, but talk about the adaptive change, is that a great skill to have? Is it a flaw? Just talk about the change piece.
Katherine: Adaptability is really important and it’s not just for when you are changing jobs. You might learn to be adaptable by changing jobs, you might be adaptable and that’s why you can easily change jobs, but it’s important in the workplace because there are going to be things that change whether it’s your work or coworkers or expectations that you may have to just either get on board with and like it or get on board with and not like it. So you might as well adapt, it’s going to make your life easier and everybody’s life easier. I see it as a huge asset and I think we see in this field that when you are not adaptable, it only hurts you.
Lacey: Yeah, I would agree. And I think I probably wouldn’t have stayed here for 10 years if there wasn’t the opportunity for change throughout my career. I can’t even tell you off the top of my head how many different positions I have had here, I think it’s same for you Brandon – we have had the opportunity to learn and grow and develop and Katherine, too. So being in the same job day in and day out for a long period of time with the pace that the world is moving, I think Millennials want to move to with it. Yeah, like don’t slow me down, let me keep going. So if a company can identify those people that want that, because there are Millennials that don’t, there are some who, like I said, just want to come in and do their job and find what they are good at and stick with it. But for those that are interested in growth and development, creating programs that can support employees with that – mentorship programs and development planning with the employees, goal setting – those are all little things that employers can do to retain those Millennials and you don’t have to have that expectation that I am going to invest all this time and money in hiring this 25-year old person who’s got a good degree, some good experience, and then they are going to leave me in 2 years. Maybe it happens more frequently than not but it’s possible to avoid that I think.
Brandon: Yesterday, I was at an all-day offsite planning for sales and marketing, and I mentioned to the team that when I am planning I do a little bit of reflection on the past but I don’t dwell on the past very much because I want to look forward to what I can do differently, how can we change, what resources do we need, how are we going to improve. And I think that as Millennials we want to make progress. Change is good. We generally like change, it can be hard at times but we are able to quickly adapt and move forward, but we don’t dwell so much on the past. Do you resonate with that?
Lacey: I think so. Yeah, I think the world is moving really quickly and for me it’s like I don’t have time to sit and dwell on it, I want to figure out what the nuggets are that I can learn from and then take it so I can get better because development and growth is just a really important thing for me personally.
Brandon: And I guess where I was going with that is, I think that what employers can do is always be feeding growth opportunities and talking about the future. I am futurist, so I like to talk about the future and what it could be like because I think if you have this vision of what the future might be like, you are more likely to want to be a part of it; does that make sense?
Lacey: Yeah, and how you fit into it. Like where can I contribute, how can I add value? And I think about that even here at Xenium, where we are going, what are we doing and what’s going to be my role in that? Because I have no intentions of leaving and I just want to know what the next great thing is for me personally.
Katherine: And if you keep future part of the conversation and keep it at the forefront of employees’ minds, then they are constantly going to be thinking about it too and it’ll limit, like Lacey said, the chances that people are going to leave because they have less time to think about other things because the future is on their mind.
Brandon: But it also might cause healthy turnover as well, because if the leaders of this company have this vision and as a Millennial or somebody who wants to be part of the future, if they don’t feel like they fit as part of that future or they align with their values, they may self-select out and that’s healthy turnover.
Lacey: Yeah, absolutely.
Brandon: I want to talk about technology a little bit. We were talking about how we grew up natively with the digital era of the internet. Lacey, you and I were kind of caught in between. Katherine, you basically grew up with the internet and all these other cool resources that most people didn’t grow up with and they had to learn. Do you think Millennials are obsessed with technology to a fault?
Katherine: You know, I don’t see it as an obsession. I actually would separate social media and technology. I think that people fault my generation with being obsessed with social media and that instant newsfeed, I see that being perhaps a symptom of our generation. But the technology thing, that’s just inherent, that’s just native, like you said, we don’t know anything different, we don’t know how to function any differently, so I see them as different.
Lacey: And they’re tools. Technology, I think about that as tools and resources in order to work more efficiently, to be connected in ways that further goals that you have personally or you know for the company, so I like that you break that up. I do think the social media thing, I think it can be a distraction and I agree with other generations that maybe have a bad taste in their mouth for how frequently people are updating their Facebook and Twitter and Snapchat and all this, it’s the need to have people acknowledge what you are doing with your life, what you ate for breakfast, all those things. I mean it’s gotten to the point where that’s what people are updating and I joke like I didn’t even go to my high school reunion because I know what everybody that I went to high school with is doing and the people I want to see I already hang out with. People are really connected, so there are flaws to the system probably and the social media piece is the one where I could see us getting into trouble.
Brandon: I see the social media piece, why we may be “obsessed” with social media, is because we like instant gratification, we like counting the likes we get or the shares and all this stuff. But if you take it back to the workplace, what can employers do to sort of feed that instant gratification? I don’t think that’s going away, because we grew up as the trophy generation, everybody got a participation trophy. We always had some way of acknowledging that hey you finished, you got a diploma, you get a ribbon, you get whatever it is. What can an employer do to feed that?
Lacey: Like Kat said, get to know your people because if you have an employee who you know really likes, let’s say, public displays of acknowledging performance, I think you want to try to focus on that. So with the instant gratification, I have seen companies go away from annual performance reviews and do shorter periods of time so the feedback loop is more frequent. So you could consider doing something like that. Employee recognition programs that happen frequently, empowering employees to recognize each other with programs that incentivize that. Goal setting that’s tied to profit sharing or discretionary bonuses – those are the kind of things I think a Millennial would probably relate to.
Brandon: With the Millennial generation, do you think we are ever going to a point where we have to worry about them saying, well that’s the way we have always done it?
Katherine: No. I don’t because I think our generation is constantly looking for change, looking for appropriate change, I think.
Brandon: That’s a good distinction, appropriate change – because change just for the sake of change, is that good?
Lacey: No, being generating, like people that generate change, that look for opportunity to improve things and make things better, make the world a better place, you see that a lot and I can hear that in the people around me that are also in the same generation, not to say that other generations don’t feel the same way but I think the stereotype for those is maybe that they tend to be a little more set in their ways and it’s more difficult.
Brandon: If we look at practical application for working with Millennials and giving them more of what they want, what are some things employers can do right away to appeal a Millennial generation? If they are not doing it already?
Lacey: Yeah, the stuff we talked about like the flexibility, providing technology and really looking at that, what system do we have in place, are my employees operating from really archaic systems that are creating frustration and inefficiency? Get to know your employees, provide opportunities to give back to the community, that’s huge. So, we do that a lot at Xenium. So opportunities to volunteer and stuff like that.
Katherine: I think work events, and I know that sounds kind of cheesy, but getting together and spending time with each other, I mean, we spend as much if not more time with our coworkers as we do with our families, and that’s big. Your coworkers could become like your work family and I think that’s important. Create opportunities for your employees to get to know each other more, I think that’s big, I really do.
Lacey: And have a good time, it doesn’t have to be just seriousness all day long. Like people joke about, Millennials want foosball tables and beer at work, and, you know, if that’s what your employees want and you’ve got an environment that could offer that, I am not suggesting that every employer go out and buy kegs and fill their workplace with alcohol—
Brandon: Would be nice!
Lacey: I’m not going to complain! But, you know, you’ve got to appeal to the general audience that you have. So think outside the box, get creative, talk to Millennials.
Brandon: I was thinking that! It’s like, go and ask! We’re trying to generate some ideas about oh what do Millennial want? Ask them. Your Millennials in your organization, it’s a sampling of a wider generation, they may not all want the same things. Continue to ask. Aren’t there things you can do from an HR standpoint to ask or like frequently just get a pulse on like what people actually want, what do you think, what’s going on?
Lacey: Have 1-on-1’s with your employees, check in, go to lunch. You could create, even with new hires, forms that people fill out and talk about how they want to be recognized, what their interest and likes are. Spend time with your people, and I think supervisors and companies will just reap the benefits of that for any generation.
Brandon: Before we wrap up, I want to talk communication really quickly. I think this is the biggest area for people who are concerned about Millennials in the workplace and like what do I do, and from a manager’s standpoint if I am Boomer and I have a Millennial working for me, how do I communicate with them? Are there tips that you guys could offer that would give managers and HR people and employers some tips on how to actually communicate, like where do they want to be, how do they want to communicate?
Lacey: Having empathy and really coming into the conversation with an open mind versus a view that your Millennial is a bad employee or a bad person or that they are going to fit all these stereotypes is important. I have Millennials reporting to me and all the stereotypes of lazy and you can’t have a conversation with them, none of them fit that at all. So if I were a Baby Boomer, let’s say, and I went into that conversation, I’d be looking to be right, I would be looking to find examples of that. So having an open mind when you are communicating is important.
Katherine: I think from a practical standpoint as far as applying, ask what communication style works best. So if you know you are working with a Millennial and you are older maybe in the Baby Boomer generation and you are like, oh gosh, I have this feeling that they are going to like want to email me all the time and I don’t do well on email. Maybe you should ask them, you know hey, can we work out a good communication style? Because I am not great with emails, like do you prefer to email? Would you rather set up phone calls to communicate? I mean it sounds maybe silly but I think from a practical standpoint that’s just going to get it out of the way, improve the relationship or set it off on a good path – that’s a good practical practice.
Brandon: We talked about technology and social media, but on the communication standpoint, like if I am an Xer a Boomer and I have some co-workers that are Millennials, they are on social media, is it appropriate to connect with them?
Lacey: Yeah, that’s a good question. I think it has less to do with generations and more to do with company policy and type of environment that you work in.
Brandon: But it seems to me, and you guys may fall into this camp too, but I connect with people I know and that’s sort of part of my ecosystem. I just watch what I put out there to the universe because I know everybody is watching and I have kind of a personal brand that I want to keep up, and I think people just need to be cognizant of that, but I think it’s up to you ultimately if you want to connect or not. Do you think Millennials want to be connected with?
Katherine: I think so, yeah.
Lacey: It’s like Kat said, like getting to know it becomes your eco system, your family. We spend a lot of time together and it would feel fake to me not to be connected, that wouldn’t be true to who I am.
Brandon: That’s a good point.
Lacey: It would feel like a weird boundary.
Brandon: Katherine did talk about the work-life integration piece, I think that even the social networking aspect becomes part of that because you just want to be part of something and part of a community and social media is just like a medium to allow that ecosystem to get larger and get more connected to it, so I think ultimately it’s a great thing but you have to probably take it on a case by case basis.
Katherine: Yeah, I mean there are limits, but I think you are right.
Brandon: Hey, this has been a fun conversation. Any parting thoughts or advice for people who just want to know more about the Millennial generation?
Lacey: Be prepared, because 1 in 3 people in a few years are going to be Millennials, and we are a pretty awesome group of people if I do say so myself!
Katherine: Yeah, I would say that we have a lot to offer and you hear the stereotypes, but it’s just perception, it’s just how you perceive it. I would also say that there are things about other generations that we do appreciate. I think that gets undermined sometimes, we do acknowledge the differences with older generations that maybe we can learn from, but we like to take bits and pieces and make our own thing of it, so that’s, I think, what sets us apart but we are, like Lacey said, a pretty awesome group.
Brandon: I appreciate you two being part of the podcast. Lacey Halpern, Katherine Thomas – you two are awesome. If you like what you read today, please go to iTunes and give us a review. Doesn’t have to be 5 stars but we always like to get your feedback so we can improve on the podcast and build better content.