In this episode of Transform Your Workplace, Siri Chilazi unpacks the hidden biases that shape hiring decisions and workplace norms—and what leaders can do about them. She shares eye-opening research on why traditional approaches to fairness often fall short and explains how small, strategic shifts can create real impact. From debunking myths about fairness to leveraging data for better decision-making, Chilazi offers actionable insights that any leader can use. Don’t miss this conversation if you want to build a more inclusive, high-performing workplace.
GUEST AT A GLANCE
Siri Chilazi is a senior researcher at Harvard Kennedy School’s Women and Public Policy Program, specializing in workplace gender equality and evidence-based diversity strategies. Her work has been featured in major outlets like Harvard Business Review, The New York Times, and Forbes. She is also the co-author of Make Work Fair: Data-Driven Design for Real Results and a sought-after speaker and advisor on inclusive workplace practices.
A QUICK GLIMPSE INTO OUR PODCAST
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SMALL SHIFTS = BIG RESULTS
A small tweak to how businesses format résumés can make a huge difference in how candidates are evaluated. A study of 9,000 UK firms found that the traditional résumé format—listing job titles with exact dates—makes career gaps stand out. And here’s the problem: research shows that employers often unfairly penalize candidates for those gaps, even though there’s no evidence that taking time off makes someone less skilled or dedicated. Whether it’s for caregiving, health reasons, or something else, a break from work shouldn’t automatically count against a potential job candidate.
Guest Siri Chilazi explains that a simple fix—listing the length of time in each role instead of specific dates—helps recruiters focus on what really matters. “What that small redesign does is it removes the focus on the gaps and instead allows us to focus on the actual skills and experiences and competencies that candidates bring,” she says. The study found that using this format made both men and women more likely to get interview invites. According to Chilazi, it’s a perfect example of how small changes can level the playing field and help companies find the best talent without unnecessary bias.
PODCAST EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS
Busting “Fairness” Myths
“The myth is that we can train ourselves to fairness—that by educating people about the concepts of unconscious bias, somehow we can change how they feel. We can raise their awareness, we can modify their beliefs, and, as a result, people will magically behave differently, and the workplace will magically become more fair. Now, there’s a lot of research to suggest that de-biasing humans is really difficult or might well be impossible. Unconscious bias is just a facet of how human brains operate. But there’s also a lot of research to show that we can get people to behave differently without changing their underlying attitudes and beliefs.”
Data: A Powerful Engine for Change
“A lot of times, we collect data, analyze it, make beautiful charts and graphs based on it, put it in a presentation, write a blog post about it—and then it goes nowhere. So, in my world, as a researcher and as someone who hopes to influence organizational practice, data is not an end in itself. Collecting, analyzing, and presenting data in compelling ways—that’s super important; it has to be done. But it’s in service of something bigger, which is allowing that data to tell us where we have opportunities to improve and where we have gaps in fairness, right? And then, allowing us to design and choose the best actions so that we can erase those gaps.”
Why Measure?
“So, let’s do a silly analogy from the world of weight loss, which is relatable for many people, right? You could just sit there and say, ‘I want to lose weight, so I’m going to do it. I’m setting a goal for myself to lose some weight.’ But if you haven’t weighed yourself and don’t know where you started, and if you don’t weigh yourself again, you don’t actually know if you lost weight. You might feel like you did. It might look like it. But you don’t actually, definitively know. You certainly don’t know how much weight you lost. So, it’s not that you can’t make progress without measurement and goals. If you put in all those healthy behaviors—started moving more, maybe eating less, maybe eating more healthfully—that would all certainly be wonderful. It’s great for your health, and you might even lose some weight. But you could never really fully know where you started, where you ended, or how much progress you made.”
Digging into the Data
“I’ve worked with a lot of companies that say something to the effect of, ‘This sounds great, but we don’t really collect any data. That’s just not how we run our business.’ So then I ask them, ‘Well, do you know who your employees are? Do you have their names?’
‘Sure, we do.’
‘Do you know when they were hired?’
‘Well, of course.’
‘If they were promoted at some point along the way, would there be a record of that somewhere?’
‘Sure.”
‘Do you know how much you pay them?’
‘Well, of course.’
‘Have you ever run an employee survey?’
‘Yeah, we do that every year.’
Goodness—that is so many data points right there. So, I think instead of the availability of data being the issue, that’s actually less often the challenge. More often, the challenge is that we just haven’t applied an analytical lens to it.”
The Power of Transparency
“When we know that our actions are being watched by others, we tend to be—to put it in layperson’s terms—on our very best behavior. So, transparency and the accountability that arise from sharing data publicly and transparently, tracking progress, and giving people regular updates create the accountability of: Did we actually move the needle? And if not, where did we go wrong? Whose head is going to be on the chopping block? Even if it’s not an individual, but maybe collectively, how are we going to right the ship and make sure that next time we give this progress report, we have something better to share? That’s the magic of transparency.”
A Magnet for Talent
“I know that a lot of companies are cognizant of the fact that much of what they do internally with their existing workforce also serves as a signal to attract—or turn off—potential applicants. There’s a lot of interesting research showing that when companies, for example, put in place public diversity goals and share statements like, ‘Our goal is to increase the representation of women or people of color,’ it doesn’t deter white men. However, it makes women and people of color more likely to apply for job openings in that organization because they take it as a signal—not just of the company’s values, but of how they operate.”
Some Common Hiring Biases
“We humans have a fundamental tendency to gravitate toward people who are similar to us—so-called homophily, in-group bias, or affinity bias—whether that’s based on race, gender, the school we attended, a hobby we have, or a workplace we were previously part of. That’s one thing. Another is that we don’t always easily focus on the most important or relevant data points at hand. We humans get easily distracted by things that are not actually relevant—like the fact that we like somebody or that they seem fun to hang out with. Well, that’s great, but are they the most competent? Do they have the skills to do this job better than all the other candidates? And then, sometimes, we just get distracted by considerations that should have no bearing on the process at all.”
Leading the Change
“Let me share something that will apply to everyone, regardless of the type of workplace you’re in, your seniority, your role, or where in the world you are—and that is to become a norm entrepreneur. Norms are shared but often unspoken understandings of what type of behavior is acceptable or expected. A norm entrepreneur is someone who takes it upon themselves to shape and uphold the types of norms they want to see in the workplace.
For example, if you don’t like people multitasking in meetings—whether on Zoom, where they’re distracted and typing emails, or in person, where they’re secretly looking at their phone under the table—could you, at the start of the next team meeting, say: ‘Hey guys, I’d like to try something new. I think we could reduce the duration of this meeting by 15 minutes, but agree that it’s fully focused time and we’re all totally present, not multitasking. Would you be willing to try this out for the next couple of meetings and see how it goes?’
That’s norm entrepreneurship in action. If you don’t like interruptions in the workplace or in meetings, then the next time someone gets interrupted, chime in. Interrupt the interrupter.”
LEARN MORE
Want to dive deeper? Connect with Siri Chilazi on LinkedIn for more insights on workplace equity and inclusion. You can also visit makeworkfair.com to explore Chilazi’s book and sign up for a newsletter with the latest research and strategies.