In this episode of Transform Your Workplace, Dr. Gregory Chasson, author and distinguished clinical psychologist, dives into the perils of perfectionism in the workplace. From overachievement in middle school to the paralyzing procrastination of adulthood, Chasson uncovers the consequences of unattainable standards and rigid expectations. Tune in to get insights from Dr. Chasson’s latest book, Flawed, and learn how leaders can combat perfectionism with empathy, understanding, and flexibility.
GUEST AT A GLANCE
Dr. Gregory Chasson is a distinguished licensed and board-certified clinical psychologist. He serves as an Associate Professor and the Director of Behavioral Interventions at the Obsessive-Compulsive and Related Disorders Clinic within the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Neuroscience at the University of Chicago. Dr. Chasson is also the author of Flawed: Why Perfectionism is a Challenge for Management.
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PRAISE FOR THE IMPOSSIBLE
According to our latest guest, Greg Chasson, “perfectionism is everywhere.” His recently published book, Flawed: Why Perfectionism is a Challenge for Management, explores this idea and how it negatively affects the workplace.
Chasson, who works extensively with teenagers, has observed that perfectionism tends to become problematic around the age of twelve or thirteen. This critical juncture often coincides with middle school, a time when kids can no longer sustain the overachieving behaviors that earned them praise and recognition in elementary school.
Chasson describes this phenomenon as “nuking the fly,” where children exert excessive effort to excel and receive positive reinforcement. However, this level of effort is unsustainable. “They get reinforced for it. They get praise. They get recognition. They get awards. […] And the problem is that it’s impossible to maintain that level of effort for the rest of your life,” he says. Ultimately, the quest for perfection commonly rears its ugly head in adulthood in none other than the workplace. And according to our guest, the consequences are staggering. Luckily, leaders can take real steps to combat the obsession with perfection, both in their expectations and practices.
PODCAST EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS
Interviewing a Perfectionist
“If a reference is offering information about perfectionism, I would consider that a pretty big red flag because perfectionism, usually coming from a reference, means this has been noticed and has become a problem at some level. Otherwise, a reference is not going to even notice. They’re just going to call them high achievers and excellent, and their effort is impressive, and their work is incredible. But if they call them perfectionistic, that means it’s shown at a few points, and I think it’s worth following up on that.”
Defining Terms
“Perfectionism, to me, has to be differentiated from high standards and flexible standards. High expectations are okay — there’s nothing wrong with it — and pursuing perfection is actually quite alright. It’s when it becomes rigid and excessive — that is the problem. Perfectionism generally is defined by those two features: excessive expectations go way beyond what’s considered normative or healthy relative to industry standards or peers and their performance, and the approach, the behavior, the thoughts tend to be extremely rigid. People do not have an easy time shifting gears and moving on to something different or, again, giving up and saying something is good enough, and so they have this one-track mind.”
Checking and Rechecking
“Procrastination, in my mind, is often perfectionism. […] Perfectionism leads to all sorts of safety behaviors — things that we do to try to make ourselves feel better in the moment. We’ll check things over and over again. We’ll seek reassurance from other people. We’ll do internet research for hours and hours and hours just to make sure that we’re doing something right. So those kinds of behaviors are a direct result of perfectionism, and procrastination falls squarely in that category because it’s an avoidance behavior.”
The Impact of Perfectionism
“Efficiency does a nosedive. Productivity plummets. You get individuals who are stuck on making decisions and can’t move forward. You get, essentially, a resentful and toxic workplace. We see some types of perfectionism that project outward. I call it ‘other-oriented perfectionism,’ so in other words, people hold really rigid standards of other people instead of just themselves. And we’ve all worked with folks like this. It can be very difficult, right? They often come across as a bit self-righteous. They are very difficult to work with, and because of their perfectionism, they really have a hard time changing or seeing it.”
Opening Our Eyes
“A lot of people do things unwittingly, not understanding that they’re creating a culture of perfection or perfectionism, such as praising people out in the community. They think having a giant whiteboard with the sales numbers and praising people for their being on the top of the leaderboard is motivating, and it is for a lot of people, but for the people who have put in every ounce of their energy and are not cracking the Top 10, it could be extremely demoralizing, and that can create a cycle where they’re just spiraling downward. And so, just understanding that kind of environment, it does motivate some people, but it will have a negative effect, an opposite effect, on others. […] And so I think we just need to go in with our eyes wide open a little bit more, knowing what techniques might be promoting this idea that we expect nothing less than perfect.”
Leaning on the Rules
“Rules are necessary. We all abide by rules. […] Rules are there for a reason, but those rules are built on principles, and principles, in turn, are built on values. And the problem with people with perfectionism is they often lean heavily into the rules at the expense of the principles or values. […] They get so rigid about it, and they start to police it, either themselves or other people, and it becomes a real problem for the workplace and for the worker, him or herself. Rules have a place, but in general, I try to encourage people to live by principles rather than the rules. Rules are critical, but they should not be carried out to such a degree that it’s actually undermining the principle.”
The Toxicity of “Should”
“‘Should,’ to me, is a word that needs to be banished from the English language […] — this is usually an indication of some perceived universal truth that the person thinks exists. So I ‘should’ be a good dad. I ‘should’ be a good podcaster. I ‘ought to’ be good in bed. I ‘should’ be the world’s best athlete. The amount of ‘shoulds’ in our world is overwhelming. We all experience it, and it can lead us down really difficult paths. They create unattainable, universal expectations that just completely crush us. And so what I like to do is point these out to people when they’re experiencing them and get them to try to loosen and flex their thinking around this because should statements can be absolutely shackling.”
LEARN MORE
Get Greg Chasson’s book, Flawed: Why Perfectionism is a Challenge for Management, at flawedbook.com or find out more about his work at www.gregchasson.com.