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Suzi Wear (00:00:00):

Hey, while everybody’s getting situated, and checking in via chat about how they’re doing, I will go over some agenda and housekeeping items. Oh, I see some good comments, energized, excellent, busy. It’s great to be busy and productive. Yeah, life is heavy right now but doing well. Yeah, I hear you. Thank you everybody for sharing. Yes, eat your breakfast, feel free to relax and listen in and eat your breakfast. Super. Thank you everybody for sharing.

Suzi Wear (00:00:41):

Thank you for joining us in our discussion today about racial justice and equity today. Let me just start by saying that 2020 so far has been a tough year. And we’re halfway through. Every organization is being touched by this crisis in some way or another. And as a result, every organization has an opportunity to respond in a way that’s more equitable. And leaders, which we’ll really be focused on today, leaders play a key role in exhibiting and modeling a commitment to equity. This includes fostering honest conversations about race, racism, racial justice and I’d like to acknowledge that these conversations and the work, can be uncomfortable. Every individual and organization is in a different place on their journey. And I think the most important thing we can do is focus on progress, moving the needle forward, and really being thoughtful about the action and the impact that we can have within our organizations and the community.

Suzi Wear (00:01:49):

We have a great panel of organizational leaders, who have graciously volunteered to share their wisdom and experience. We have Beach Pace from Big Brothers Big Sisters Columbia Northwest. We have Anne Schaum from Straub Collaborative and she’s also the founder of Dramatic Changes: The Center for Sound Relationships. Mari Watanabe from Partners in Diversity, and Libra Gilbert Forde of Self Enhancement, Inc. So I’ll allow each of them to share a little bit about themselves before we dive into the questions that were submitted. And we’ve also set aside time later in the 75 minute webinar for open Q&A. So feel free to enter your questions as we move along. I will let you all know that there will be a link to the recording of this webinar sent out to all participants. It will also be saved on Xenium’s website under the content section of our website, which also includes some other resource material.

Suzi Wear (00:02:47):

In addition to COVID we’ve created a DEI resource page that we’re adding content to on a regular basis. If you have also any suggestions for what you’d like to see within that resource page, we’d love to hear from you, or also just share content that’s been really helpful for you. So, let’s get our session underway. I’m going to ask each panelist just to share just a little bit about themselves. And then we’ll go into our questions. So let’s start with Libra. So Libra, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do for SEI?

Libra Forde (00:03:34):

In a classroom, when you called last the first round, you know you’re going to be called first. So I was like, “I know I’m going to be called first.” But, hi, everybody. Happy Thursday to you. I hope you all feeling as peaceful as you can in this moment and ready to take in some information as I am ready to take in information from the other great panelists. So I’ve been in Oregon about six years, just a quick synopsis. I’m really from New York City. Lived all over the place. I currently work at Self Enhancement Incorporated as a chief operating officer and I’m also an elected official here in Clackamas on the North Clackamas school board. I believe in children. I will always advocate for children. It is what I stand for. I have children, but I believe that all children give us a sight on what the future can be. So, it’s my core value. And so anything that has to do with that, I’m in 1,000%.

Suzi Wear (00:04:31):

Awesome, thank you so much. How about you Mari?

Mari Watanabe (00:04:37):

Hi, everybody. I’m Mari Watanabe. I’m the executive director of Partners in Diversity. And we are a small nonprofit. We sit within the Portland Business Alliance, which is the Chamber of Commerce but we are our own organization there. They serve as our fiscal agent and we work with employers on their diversity equity and inclusion goals. So we have programs for the employer side and we also have programs for the employee side. And their most famous program is called Say Hey! Which hopefully, a lot of you have ever heard of, or at least been to, unfortunately, COVID has shut us down but we had our last Say Hey, at the end of February before the shutdown. We had 700 people attend. So it’s really a great space for our communities of color to network with each other and meet our newest professionals of color who moved to Oregon in Southwest Washington. I’m originally from Seattle and moved here 20 years ago to work in the corporate sector and then transferred over to the nonprofit sector, which is, in my mind, way more fun. Anyway, great to meet you all.

Suzi Wear (00:05:50):

Thank you very much. Anna, would you like to introduce yourself?

Anna Schaum (00:05:57):

Sure. Good morning, everybody. I’m Anna Schaum. I am the new and founding director of Ecosocial Development at Straub Collaborative which is an ecommerce photo studio. We actually have four locations, one in Portland, one in Boston, one in Spartanburg, South Carolina and one in Hong Kong. So when we think about diversity, equity inclusion, we’re really thinking globally, but also wanting to keep it really at home locally in Portland with the way we do equity work. And also thinking nationally with the different localities and our experiences of racism and systemic racism in those locations based on the land they’re built upon.

Anna Schaum (00:06:44):

I have a really different background. I started out as a classical musician, I was lucky enough to have access to, I say classical in the European sense, of course, in Atlanta, Georgia and had access to a music education. So when Libra says she appreciates children, that was my saving grace, was my access to music. And was playing in the Oregon Symphony for 15 years before realizing I wasn’t using enough of myself. So I went back to school got a degree in counseling psychology, and have worked with people behind the scenes one on one hearing their stories of all the isms. That led me back to Straub Collaborative where it’s a family business started by my husband 30 years ago, and seeing how I might be able to bring my skill sets straight into the weave and fiber of a growing business. So I look forward to sharing my journey that’s only officially six months old now during the pandemic.

Suzi Wear (00:07:40):

Great, thank you so much. I love hearing everybody’s stories, and it’s really special. And I see Libra you’re getting some props from some of your people. SEI folks out there. What is really sweet is that Libra has been a wonderful role model for my nephew who is an SEI participant. So that’s great. Okay, so Beach. Last but not least, let’s hear from you.

Beach Pace (00:08:08):

Good morning. My name is Beach Pace. I’m the CEO of Big Brothers Big Sisters Columbia Northwest. So I have the honor of leading one of 250 sites around the country. I lead the Portland based site. And we have the joy of supporting over 500 youth and each of those youth members have a dedicated one to one mentor. And I love the work and we have a great team. My background is I’m a graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point, I served the United States Army. Afterwards, I was in private sector and pharmaceutical sales and marketing for about a decade. And then a good friend of mine asked how I liked it and I didn’t. I told her that I missed service.

Beach Pace (00:08:52):

Libra said that she’s dedicated to youth and that’s your focus, and I love how you started us off that way. And my focus is service. And so I got back into service with social change organizations. I personally don’t like to call our sector nonprofit because that says what we don’t do. And I like to talk about what we do. And what we do is social change and social impact. So I’ve been with Big Brothers Big Sisters now for four years and I’m really enjoying the team and the work.

Suzi Wear (00:09:27):

Thank you, beach. And we’re excited to hear about some of the work that you’ve done there as well. That’ll actually kick off our first question for Beach. What steps have you taken in your organization to improve diversity, equity or inclusion?

Beach Pace (00:09:47):

I think the bottom line there is hiring. I remember in the military, I was in the service and it took me four years to see a woman who was a general. There’s no women in higher leadership. And that I didn’t realize what a big deal that was until I actually met her. And it made me realize what was possible for me because until then I was pretty sure that I didn’t have the same opportunities and in fact, I didn’t have the same opportunities by law. But to know that responsibility and rank were still achievable, were an important message to me. And so when I came into Big Brothers Big Sisters, we were 95% white female cisgender. I was the first LGBTQ in a while, at least on staff when I walked in the door, and then making the change of hiring people and I think there’s a difference reaching out to the community, building bridges into the community, but then also, not just how hiring to hire, because I already know what a difference diversity makes. And I also saw that in the military.

Beach Pace (00:11:08):

And the more diverse teams I was on, those were the teams that performed best. And so I also saw that value, I knew the value of seeing myself reflected and I knew the value of a diverse team. And so it wasn’t just hiring, it was putting people in leadership positions, and I’ve noticed that’s made a huge difference. So we’re now at 61% black, indigenous Latino people of color. We’ve added more men to the mix. And we’ve also added more LGBTQ members as well.

Suzi Wear (00:11:41):

Great, thank you. Yeah, I think a lot of people out there, especially employers I’ve talked with, have a desire to do something, right? I mean, they’re early on in their initiatives or journey, and they don’t know how to go about these things. So sometimes we will start performing activities, right, doing training or doing a book group. How would you recommend, maybe based on your experience people go about really having impact?

Beach Pace (00:12:17):

Well first is it starts here in the heart. Understanding that this is what I wanted to do and understanding the board is coming along with us. I have heard from other Big Brothers Big Sisters sites where the board wasn’t okay with for example, LGBTQ, they weren’t and board members quit, not here. So bring the board along, bring the stuff along DEI training et cetera, books et cetera. But then actually doing it is, I mentioned building bridges out into the community, attending different events, events that really in some cases had nothing to do with Big Brothers Big Sisters, but it had everything to do with building community. Going to SEI events, going to Latino network events, and mixers, et cetera. Letting people know that this is what I was working on, this is what we wanted to do, this is where we’re headed. Because then that just puts it out there that we have made this commitment. And then actually going through the process of hiring folks and hiring folks in leadership positions. And then bringing everybody along, leadership training for all to make sure that those who are interested, can ascend.

Beach Pace (00:13:32):

I have told my team that I am 100% willing to be replaced by any one of them. I am, because I think it’s important to have different leaders for different times, right. Anyway, people can see that things are attainable within the organization, not only here, but if they wanted to move like could go to another Big Brothers if they had to move for whatever reason. So, letting them know that I’m invested in their leadership training, and then actually doing that, like money investing in their leadership training as well.

Suzi Wear (00:14:09):

Great. Thank you. So this next question is for Mari. And then I might ask for some input from Anne and Libra, too. So what are ways that an employer can tackle anti-racism and other social issues, whether internally or in the community?

Mari Watanabe (00:14:28):

There are many, many ways so, I’ll talk about a few and then I’m sure Anne and Libra have other thoughts. Internally, doing some type of racial impact assessment to level set where you’re at and that will also help look at where you need to improve or what are the issues that are standing out, what are the trends? I think another is pay transparency and looking at your democratic data as well, and setting goals onto what you want your organization to look like and not just do it once but track it over time. And I think the transparency piece is putting it on your website or making your annual report of that is a part of it.

Mari Watanabe (00:15:19):

Looking at the demographics, you’ll also want to look at where are your employees of color situated from leadership on down and do you see a trend or pattern there. So if all your employees of color are in the lower levels of your organization, then that’s one of the places that you need to focus on because as Beach said, diversity impact helps you be more successful, but really, if you have diversity all the way through your organization, you will be even more successful. So you definitely want to see leadership of color in your place.

Mari Watanabe (00:15:56):

Investing in professional development for employees of color, That could include professional training or mentorship, sponsorship, et cetera. And also in the community, find a segue to that. So donating money to racial justice organizations and a lot of them have been in the news, I would say both locally and nationally. And I’m going to plug myself, Partners in Diversity, we help connect employees of color to our multicultural community and that’s a really important piece to get your employees to stay. You can collaborate on community led projects, and you can also support and encourage your employees of color to serve civically on commissions or community boards, advisory boards, et cetera, and allow them time to do that, not just [inaudible 00:16:59], but also make sure that their 80 hours of work is also getting done. So, those are some ideas.

Suzi Wear (00:17:08):

Those are great ideas. Yeah, I was taking notes myself. Great. What about you Libra, ways that employers can tackle anti-racism and other social issues, whether internally or in the community?

Libra Forde (00:17:21):

Yeah. So first, I want to go back to what Beach was saying about, a lot of people are just trying to figure out how and for me, some great statements are about achievement and actualizing through visualization. And so I think it’s first important that we all remember what we learned in kindergarten. And that is what you feel is usually your first correct instinct. A lot of times what people do in this world is we’ve now leaned on systems, versus what our innate feelings are, and the systems were built to oppress people. So the fact that we’ve shifted all of our weight to that side, we now get this answer of I don’t know what to do. And the reality is, when a kindergartner comes to you and says, “I don’t know what to do.” A teacher or an educator will look at them and say, “Well, let’s think about it. Because you do know, it’s in your heart first.”

Libra Forde (00:18:17):

So don’t lean on systems first, but I will say lean in. And I say this all the time. And LEAN IN for me is an acronym. And so the first part of the LEAN IN, the L is to look. Open your eyes, look at what’s going on. Don’t just look inside of yourself, look at what’s going on, look at people’s reactions, look at their faces, look at their body language. And if all of that is not lining up, we have something wrong. The next thing is educate. Educate yourself and educate other people. If you are not educated in these areas of anti-racism, if you’ve never learned them, which most of us have not because they’ve been removed from most education systems, educate yourself. We can all read, there’s Google, there’s YouTube, there’s so much information, educate yourself.

Libra Forde (00:19:01):

And then after you educate yourself assess the systems that you’re in, look at them deeply. I see this question from Kevin, if you got a leader that’s not interested, but it’s in your heart, you know what, educate yourself, assess the systems, twist them like they’ve twisted them for us and make it work. Make it work, where it actually will do something that notices people, which is the N. You got to notice people, you can’t ignore people’s existence. That’s the problem in this earth. And the I of that is you got to be the initiator. If you see it, do something, initiate something, whatever that is. And the last thing is the N and that’s never give up. Because if you give up, the person coming up behind you will also feel what you felt. And if you don’t like that feeling, they won’t either. So never give up.

Suzi Wear (00:19:47):

I love that. That’s great. I love that you made it into the acronym, because it makes it easier to remember.

Beach Pace (00:19:52):

Can I jump in here real quick?

Suzi Wear (00:19:54):

Yeah.

Beach Pace (00:19:54):

Do you mind? One of the things I heard way back when I started was … When I was talking to the board about diversifying the staff and the board, I heard this statement for the board members, “Yeah, but we need to make sure we have people who can still donate and give money.” And frankly, what the hell kind of question is that or statement is that? Excuse my language, but when we’re talking about looking, Libra, I observed, I was like, “Yep, I’ve seen you before.” Right. And I wrote this to Kevin, having honest conversations, saying, I understand what you’re saying, because I really did understand what that person was saying. And he’s no longer with us. And I wasn’t angry, I was just like, “You believe this and I believe this and I believe this is the better way to go.”

Beach Pace (00:20:52):

But listening to what was actually said, which was he believed people of color or people with diversity could not also be people who could give and donate and generate resources for Big Brothers Big Sisters and that is not true. And that exclusive one or the other thought process was part of the problem. So thank you Libra for saying that.

Suzi Wear (00:21:17):

Yeah, and I think it takes a strong commitment by leadership to take a stand. And if you’re recognizing a member of your team who doesn’t share those values, then you have to be willing to have the tough conversation or part ways. Right? So Anne, do you have anything to add to that particular question or comment to?

Anna Schaum (00:21:51):

Really just a lot of appreciation for other folks who are looking at racial healing and systemic healing as a collective. We need each other’s backgrounds, we need to know each other’s experiences, in my opinion, to get through this with heart and with our sense of selves and humanity maintained, because this is big stuff and we have a huge opportunity to make a huge difference right now with this. I love Libra’s permission, the place to start is returning to your inner kindergartner and saying, “Really, that’s how I feel? Well, that’s really scary.” So what I would add is from a mental health point of view, and from somebody who’s a cisgendered, 54 year old female now, who has a lot of trauma in my own background that I’ve had to work through to get me grounded enough using words instead of music to express myself coherently is do your own work. I do my own work constantly.

Anna Schaum (00:22:52):

I’m 24 seven practicing what I preach and the people on this call that know me could say, “Yes, she does. And it’s highly annoying sometimes because she asks the same of us. When do we get to stop when you get to rest.” So, I’ve been in lots of groups. I’m just going to say this now because I think it’s important. Last year, Straub Collaborative donated our space. Now I also have my own business in the back. It’s been there for sound relationships because sound has two words. It means sound secure, but it also means the neurobiology of the vibe between us and that’s what Libra is talking about. Do I feel good with you? Do you make me feel good?

Anna Schaum (00:23:32):

So, we donated space for a drama therapy conference. These are folks, largely white bodied folks coming together, who work with marginalized oppressed populations. And we did an exercise, an improv exercise, I participated in as a participant. It was led by an improv artist who does DEI work. And the activation level in the nervous systems in that room went up so fast when we started getting real about what’s in this room. And honestly, the white bodies went into a triggered reaction, because, this is what we call white fragility.

Anna Schaum (00:24:06):

So, specifically, I think those of us who are in leadership roles, especially middle aged, white women, do our own work, and I hold space for that. It’s an affinity group, to be able to shake out the tension and stress that keeps us from being able to be in our bodies to talk about this stuff in a way that’s productive. It takes great awareness, it takes a long time to develop a sensitivity and know when we’re hurting other people. So, I’ll stop there.

Suzi Wear (00:24:38):

Yeah, that’s great. Thank you for sharing your personal story and journey too. So question for Mari, and I know we’ve talked a little bit about this, but any input on what business leaders can do to move forward with the change in their culture? Right? So what can business leaders do moving forward to change the culture of their business or organization?

Mari Watanabe (00:25:10):

So I work a lot with businesses, employers overall. And as Beach mentioned, for her, it’s for the heart. But there’s a lot of business leaders out there that we try to talk to as this is not just a nice to have, but it is in a business imperative for your business to be successful. And so they’re not all bought in on that it’s the right thing to do, but for their business success, we try to talk to them from a standpoint of success for their business. So, culture shift is a long and intentional process. So my other colleagues on this panel have said it that you have to educate yourself first. So, definitely learn, read, listen, et cetera.

Mari Watanabe (00:26:08):

Your leader has to be bought in to this work and be accountable and I think that is probably the one place that is the most challenging is for them to actually be accountable. And this includes the outside world of look for a leader to look at what’s happening outside their employment because from an intersectionality standpoint, I as a person of color, I bring not only just my Asian self to work and as a female, but also all the other pieces that make up me. And so when things happen on the news that are traumatizing for people of color, and including the murders of the black Americans, we’ve been seeing, that trauma goes through us and we bring it to work. And there’s no place to actually have to talk about it or to really [inaudible 00:27:08] and so employers leaders really need to understand that they have a part in making sure that their employees are okay from a mental health standpoint to be thinking about that.

Mari Watanabe (00:27:23):

When they talk about culture change, make sure that the right people are at the table. It shouldn’t be your white leadership, it should be all levels of your employees and whoever you have from the different racial groups as well to make sure that whatever you’re deciding it’s inclusive. Again, I mentioned earlier, so the assessment to really know how your employees about their workplace, do they think it’s an inclusive place? Do they feel a part of the community? Those are all important things to understand. And then set a strategy of actionable measurable initiatives that you can continue to focus on throughout the year or two years and then be able to assess how well you’ve done against those. Looking at internal policies and practices to ensure that they are inclusive and non-biased, including job description languages. How many times we’ve heard that people with names that are hard to pronounce or different from the standard American type of name often gets thrown in the garbage before they even get a chance to interview.

Mari Watanabe (00:28:41):

So, are you looking at how your hiring practices is in there? One of the things we heard the other day was that before you can be on our hiring panel, you have to have gone through unconscious bias training. That was a brilliant idea. Look at where you’re posting your jobs. Partners in Diversity has a job posting place. And look at your company values and shared agreements on how coworkers agree to interact with each other. Possibly looking at allyship training for coworkers as well. Those are some thoughts that I have.

Suzi Wear (00:29:18):

That’s great. That’s a lot to work with. And I do appreciate what you say about really being strategic and setting measurable goals and being accountable for tracking your results. This is a question for-

Libra Forde (00:29:40):

Excuse me. Can I just-

Suzi Wear (00:29:40):

Yeah. Okay go ahead.

Libra Forde (00:29:42):

I think it’s important that we recognize that culture for a lot of folks is almost like a marriage. And so to change it or to, some people call it repositioning or deconstructed, you have to think of it like a divorce and all the steps that it takes to get a divorce and to overcome a divorce and all the healing that comes with that is really no different. Because the people that have been okay in a culture that has supported them, and in their ways, and not all, so support some, but not all, they are literally going through a divorce. And so the fight of that some people want the relationship, some people don’t, you have to acknowledge that and see that in that lens, otherwise, you will not shift forward and you’ll just revert back to the original culture.

Suzi Wear (00:30:36):

That’s interesting. In your experience, how do you support people through that?

Libra Forde (00:30:45):

When people get a divorce is often a type of things right? Like, don’t call, don’t seek revenge. There’s all types of turns. I just think sometimes when we think about these terms of change, or anti-racism, all the things that are different and shift us 180 degrees, it’s very difficult for people to absorb it because they don’t see a relationship to it. They don’t see a connection. They can’t visualize how to do it. So to me, the first thing is look up, how do you break up with somebody? How do you get a divorce and be okay with it? All those steps are what you do when changing the culture is the same thing. It’s just that we’ve never made those connections. We always make it so big and so different. But it’s not that different.

Suzi Wear (00:31:29):

Yeah. And I think it can be overwhelming. And so then people don’t do anything. They don’t act if they’re feeling overwhelmed. Yeah. Great. I love your analogies.

Mari Watanabe (00:31:39):

And you have to be prepared that you may lose some people for your organization because they won’t like the change. And you may have some people tell you that you’re not going fast enough. So there’s a lot of different dynamics that will happen while you’re making this change. But it’s not a fast thing. It’s not overnight.

Suzi Wear (00:32:01):

Right. It’s, yeah, ongoing forever. Yeah. So I’m going to shift a little bit into workplace communication. And this is for Beach and Anne. First question is, how are you discussing the issues of racism with your staff and encouraging them to take responsibility at a personal level? So Beach, do you want to start?

Beach Pace (00:32:32):

Go ahead Anna if you’re ready.

Suzi Wear (00:32:33):

Okay.

Beach Pace (00:32:34):

If you’re cool.

Anna Schaum (00:32:35):

Sure. Well, I had an opportunity this morning to discuss it. So I developed this role called Ecosocial Development, so that we could look systemically at oppression and the isms and doing better not just a commercial photo studio but secretly a social service agency. Just nobody knows it yet. So, the opportunity COVID’s provided to talk more across the board at the business, there’s only 84 people in this business. So right now I’m talking about our Portland studio, which I think has 40 something folks in it. We’ve started some new meetings, director of operations and I started doing meetings where we sit down, we talk to each other about the things that need to be talked about. It started out we’re talking about how to adapt to COVID-19 and stay in business, and how to stretch the equity issues when it comes to some folks who, in order to keep the business running, you have to be on the floor wearing masks from the beginning, and haven’t had a break and are working swing shifts, and the other folks who are working now from their homes behind a computer and feeling social isolation.

Anna Schaum (00:33:46):

So we started with those conversations about the inequities and how can we bridge those gaps together. So then, Mr. Floyd is murdered, and it opens up a whole new … It’s given me a giant permission to talk more directly about race without fear. So today, I brought it up in our meeting and I named it, which I hadn’t had an opportunity to do yet, but Straub is a culture unwelcoming to racism in any form. And if we’re not doing that, then we need to be doing better. And I need to be listening better as I can in this new role, to find out what needs to change and what conversations need to happen.

Anna Schaum (00:34:26):

So my role is a bridge between HR and all the other layers in the business. It’s like being a viola player in a way, it’s the harmonizing instrument. So just starting to talk about it and being courageous, but also what Libra says, talking about it, I’ve never been divorced, gratefully, but we have worked through some seriously hard times, and just recently, I don’t think they would mind me saying, we were on the verge from the stressors we were feeling in the environment. So, it only lasted three days but we’ve grown stronger through that because we’re willing to be really uncomfortable. I mean, really uncomfortable together. And so maybe it’s possible it doesn’t have to be a divorce. I don’t know, Libra, if that’s possible, but it can be a recalibration of the next stage of a long term marriage, but that’s what I’m hoping for, in our business model and in the community.

Suzi Wear (00:35:22):

How did people respond to your conversation?

Anna Schaum (00:35:27):

Very mixed. So I appreciated the validation because this is a new role. Going in and asking folks to sit, we’re online. I’m on a screen, six folks in a conference room here, six in a conference room there keeping physical distance and trying to have difficult conversations about emotional issues, so I’m doing it. Starting the conversation, taking advantage of the opportunity, even if it makes folks uncomfortable, no one was harmed. I’ve been able to back channel with some folks in Boston, in Spartanburg, folks of color, just asking directly, “How are you doing? What’s it like where you are? Are you safe?” And just really asking people like we would a kid, “How are you doing?” And I don’t know. I’d love feedback for what that would be like to be an employee and be asked that and there’s a wide variety of responses, depending on your sense of safety in the organization.

Suzi Wear (00:36:38):

Yeah, great. What about you Beach? How are you discussing issues of racism with your staff or encouraging them to take some personal responsibility?

Beach Pace (00:36:50):

Yes. Well, the diversity of the staff helps tremendously and we get to hear from inside of our group personal experiences which is helpful. We have been having DEI conversations either professionally lead or just at lunch for a while now. Mari talked about culture and I think creating a culture of learning that we all don’t know everything, right? And one person’s experience isn’t the same as another person’s experience and recognizing that. So creating an area or a culture of learning that we’re all learning, we’re just at different points in the learning, right? For example, what Libra or Mari or Anne have experienced, I haven’t experienced that, but I’ve experienced something different and I want to hear all of their stories, right?

Beach Pace (00:37:47):

So I think a learning environment is important. Anne talked about being uncomfortable and also vulnerable. Right? Being vulnerable enough to share mistakes. Right, mistakes or uncertainty, I am uncertain how to say this and sharing that and especially as a leader or other leaders in my organization saying, “I’m not sure where to go with this, but this is what I’m thinking.” And to Libra’s point, what’s deep down is correct. How to execute, they’re asking advice on, which I think is important. And so that lets the rest of the staff know, “Oh, okay, it’s okay to ask. It’s okay to not know.” And I think that’s an important piece, right, to create the safe space where people can ask questions and be vulnerable.

Beach Pace (00:38:47):

And I also think, Anne, you mentioned this, the murder of Mr. Floyd was a catalyst, right? And to dive deeper into this, in staff meeting level, we go through the business of our business, but part of our business is also diversity and it’s also being an educated human in the world. And so we’ve talked about what do we do? We talked about where to educate ourselves and having conversations and who those conversations are with. We’ve talked about how to protest, how to go to a protest. And I’m not saying go, as a boss, I’m saying, “If you go, go with friends.” Right? “If you go, go before curfew.” Right? Supporting that, so I’m not saying go, I’m not mandating it, but I’m saying if you go do these things, because I want you to be safe, wear a mask, things like that. So I think that’s important.

Beach Pace (00:39:45):

And then recently, I gave the day off for Juneteenth, but different than any other day off that’s been given. I said, “I’ve never before mandated a new day off, right? And I’ve never before told you what to do on your day off. And this time I’m going to.” And that was to educate themselves on a person or an organization they know nothing about. And it didn’t have to be on that day off, as long as they took the time to educate themselves on something, some person or an organization they know nothing about. And I gave them an example that I was going to research, Audrey Lord, who has become a hero for me. Stepping outside the norm and saying, “I’m going to do something weird now, but this is why.”

Suzi Wear (00:40:45):

Yeah, that’s great.

Beach Pace (00:40:47):

Yeah.

Suzi Wear (00:40:48):

And we’re getting some comments that I’m going to take a minute to address because I think this is a challenge for a lot of people, when you are not getting the support from leadership, right? So you’re trying to explain, as an HR person, for example, or another leader or an employee in the organization and you’re trying to explain the benefits of diversity at all levels. And your senior leadership is not buying in or sharing those same values. I know that’s a difficult question to answer. It’s the magic question. But any thoughts on that? Anne, I see you raising your hand.

Anna Schaum (00:41:33):

Well, one is just to shift channels and not think of us as humans, but think of us as natural creatures. And I don’t know if this sells it to all levels of leadership, but healthy ecosystems are naturally diverse ecosystems. And if ultimately, we’re also interested in the health of our planet and working together to solve those major problems. If we can think of diversity, whether that’s diversifying from a corporate position, diversifying a client base, but also diversifying the ecosystem inside the business, and studying ecology. I have a picture on my wall of what permaculture looks like. And there’s a lot we can learn from permaculture, about looking at the margins and creating new patterns from the margins in, bringing people in who typically have been marginalized from roles and not have access to roles, bringing them in, it’s going to create a whole new, healthy ecosystem.

Anna Schaum (00:42:30):

And if any of the leaders are into alternative medicine, the microbiome in the gut is where most of our brain lives. And there are so many creatures and critters down there in the microbiome, doing their thing. I happen to know from the social determinants of health, people of color, typically struggle with health issues, simply because of the oppressive structures that we have around healthcare around living environments. So studying those social determinants of health if you’re looking to have a healthy organization to help the organism, study what keeps people healthy, and what’s going to make us healthy. And I actually I’m going to go on a limb and say we have a choice here to diversify or die. As businesses, it’s the wave of the future. I hope, I pray, because the other extreme is that all systems are going to break down and we’re walking a tightrope, or a violin string right now in our opportunity to resonate and amplify doing our best.

Mari Watanabe (00:43:43):

Can I add to that too?

Suzi Wear (00:43:45):

Yes.

Mari Watanabe (00:43:45):

So also, not only as Anne was talking about, it’s healthy and it’s good, but it’s also about surviving as a business. So one of the things to look at is the changing demographics coming here. So if you are looking at our school districts right now, 50% of the kids are kids of color now, that wasn’t true a few years ago. So our demographics here are rapidly changing very fast. So these kids are going to be looking for businesses and places to work that they see people who look like them inside from leadership on down. And the other way to look at them is just that they are your future customer and your future employees. So, the customer piece is like if you don’t have people who are from those communities, helping to design goods and services that you might be selling or doing then you will totally mess your audience.

Mari Watanabe (00:44:59):

So I think that you can look at it also from the money aspect and being successful as a business. There are also a lot of great research out there that talks about how much more money you can make if you have diversity from leadership on down. So sometimes if your boss or your leader isn’t bought into the nice to have piece, that you can really approach it from the business case and success of your business.

Libra Forde (00:45:28):

If I can just chime in. I think it’s really important that if we look at change, or we look at the desire to change, then we must change all things including how we look at things. So if diversity is what we want, I want us to first digest that the word diversity, the word equity were all built out of oppressive systems. So if you’re focusing on that first, then you’re still leaning on a system that will never get the result you actually want to see. So the first thing I say is flip it. If the person said they want to see a more diverse candidate, they want to have more diverse staff, let’s flip it, don’t think about it like that. Get the outcomes that you want. When you see a person in the waiting room that’s about to interview, maybe you don’t have the impact or the power or the authority, sit down with them, get to know them, and figure out how your influence can influence that decision.

Libra Forde (00:46:34):

In addition to that, if you do have the power and authority, just do it, don’t talk about it, don’t ask about it, just do it. Because the second you have diversity discussions, you create division. And even though these words have been gathered, and now they do all these trainings, they even have titles for it now, the reality of it is, all of these words help people feel more comfortable about racist systems, so stop it, just let it go. Just hire who you need to hire, be right about it, go with your gut and in the end when you get the outcomes, you’re going to see the ROIs, you’re going to see the results, you’re going to see everything you want. Let’s flip it, stop trying to prove it first, get them in there, and then prove just how well your decision actually has impact on the company.

Suzi Wear (00:47:24):

I love that. Thank you. And actually, Libra, any other thoughts you have on discussions about racism with staff or how to create a safe space for people of color to truly speak up and feel heard?

Libra Forde (00:47:40):

Yeah, I mean, and again, this is my personal opinion first and then I’ll talk about more structural things. So my personal opinion is, for decades, my ancestors, my grandparents, my great grandparents have always talked about these terms. They have always give people a color terms. And when you look at the body language of people of color, when you bring these terms up, it is uncomfortable. Because once again, we’re put inside of a box, instead of a part of the whole, we’re put inside of the box. And so we have to figure out how to flip that around. We first and foremost have to see all people as all contributing citizens, everybody, not a category, “Oh, we need more of this, we need more of that.” We’re all contributing period, until we can get to that mindset, it’s an uncomfortable thing for me personally.

Libra Forde (00:48:32):

Structurally, I know inside of systems is all of these things that we do to make sure that people feel comfortable. But the first thing is you have to notice people. If you notice people of color, they will speak up. They don’t speak up because they’re never acknowledged in spaces. And so they don’t feel that there’s any space for them to say anything. So you have to pick on them, not pick on them physically, but like sit them on the side and say, “What do I need to do to have your voice elevated? What needs to happen in this space?” And listen, and then do that. Because the second you ask and you don’t listen and you don’t do it, you will never get that person of color to speak up because they’re uncomfortable. So you have to notice all, all the time.

Suzi Wear (00:49:21):

That’s awesome. I love that. And you’re getting some yes, yes comments. And that’s gold. So thank you for sharing that. So, there was a question that was submitted about race based affinity groups. So I’m interested in your opinions of that. We can start with Mari.

Mari Watanabe (00:49:53):

I think that they are really great to have affinity groups. When I worked in the corporate sector, we had them. And first of all, it was nice to just be with people who look like you because I was at a very big corporation, but because Oregon is not very diverse, it was really hard to see others who look like me. We also had executive leadership attached to this and unfortunately, there was no executive leaders that were Asian. So we had a white executive leader, but he’s very bought into the whole aspect and he was really a good person for our group. But to have a place to talk about issues within your company or your organization that are safe spaces.

Mari Watanabe (00:50:53):

And I think not only does it provide a place for people to meet, it also builds community, which is really important in getting employees to want to stay in Oregon and keep working here but to have also set goals [inaudible 00:51:13] they should have goals and why are they in existence just not just as a place to meet but what are some of the goals that initiatives that these group can have? But the other thing I think they provide is a place for executives and top leaders to really understand what’s going on with those communities. So if the leader or the chair of the ERG has an ear with the executives, then that’s a good place to really make sure that the leaders know how their employees are feeling.

Mari Watanabe (00:51:53):

So I am all for them, as long as they’re funded, and really a part of your employees job, not just a sideline. So it’s like, “Oh, you have to work your 40 plus hours plus do this.” And then I’ve seen so many that are never funded. They work so hard and they have to pull out money from their own pocket or they don’t get to do exactly what they want to do because they don’t have any money. So, if you have one fund it.

Suzi Wear (00:52:28):

Thank you. Libra. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Libra Forde (00:52:34):

So I’ve always had thoughts…

Suzi Wear (00:52:39):

Big chair

Libra Forde (00:52:40):

I’ve been accused of being an over thinker, often. So, it’s not my issue. I think the first thing I want to say about affinity groups is yes, absolutely. I think that they’re necessary. People need a common space where they see people that look and live and exist in the same zones that they do. So those are all really positive. But I would be remiss in not saying, we’ve all been a part of an affinity group since the establishment in the United States is called white male affinity group. And so any new affinity group is really not … For me it’s like, “Okay, yeah, I’m not surprised we have these groups, because we’ve been living in one forever. So it’s great to have more.”

Libra Forde (00:53:26):

So I don’t want us to forget that this term, affinity group is great. Again, I’m not a term person, right? Because it just makes the world not really talk about the truth, which is, this has been a white male affinity group forever. And now we finally get to name other groups that have existed in this planet and have contributed for hundreds of years. And so like Mari, I agree they need to exist, but you absolutely should be funding it. And then last thing I would say is, you should also support them with some neutral non employment someone, whether it’s counseling or something that is associated with an affinity group that really makes them feel grounded and gives them the expertise they need to move forward. Because sometimes the affinity groups have issues, and then they have to turn back to the white male affinity group and get support. That doesn’t work. So give them that outside support to really get what they need to move forward.

Suzi Wear (00:54:27):

Great. Thank you. So there were a lot of questions about resources. So any of you are welcome to respond to this, but questions about resources for business leaders, resources to share with employees, or even other local organizations to partner with. So maybe we’ll start with Beach. Do you have any recommendations there?

Beach Pace (00:54:59):

I was thinking you were going to start with Mari.

Suzi Wear (00:55:02):

Sorry.

Beach Pace (00:55:02):

Partners in Diversity. No, that’s okay. So we actually have a DEI consultant. Her name is Lillian Tsai, T-S-A-I, of TsaiComms Consulting. And she’s been fantastic and really opening the door to these uncomfortable … Well, I’m reading comments about uncomfortable. I love the conversations, right? Because of that learning mindset, that growth mindset of … If you can get somebody to agree, “Are you perfect?” “No.” “Do you have something else to learn in this world?” “Yes.” “Okay, then let’s have a conversation.” Right? And so I love the way Lillian’s been leading the team through this. And like I said, we’ve been doing it for over a year now a year and a half. So she’s been huge in that supporting us. So-

Suzi Wear (00:55:56):

Okay. Thank you. Mari. You can plug partners. Anything else?

Mari Watanabe (00:56:03):

Yes. So within our organization, we do do trainings for CEOs. We have a CEO forum that we put on, because CEOs like to be together and learn in what they would consider a safe space. And then we also have a cohort program as well for CEOs. So we have professional trainers that actually work with, excuse me, a small group of those who really want to go a lot deeper into this work. So nationally, PricewaterhouseCoopers has a CEO action and diversity inclusion program. And I don’t know exactly all the programs that they do. I do know there are some CEOs here in Oregon who have signed on to their CEO pledge that they will commit to pushing diversity, equity and inclusion in their organization. They can also look to McKinsey and Company. They’ve done some great studies on why DEI work will help increase revenues. And then Forbes also has done some research on having a more diverse workforce, they will see higher revenue gains.

Mari Watanabe (00:57:26):

Harvard Business Review just came out with a article on 10 commitments that the companies can make to advance racial justice within their organization. So I’m looking at this from the business side is like, looking at your policies and practices, to make they’re anti-racist. Microsoft just put out their first diversity and inclusion report in 2019, really focused on how they have changed their culture, which I’ve been really impressed with, even my friends who work there, say they like working there more. And we’ve seen that translate into stock gains and sales gains, and of course, thousand bucks. I think that for leaders to really understand our racist history and again, leading back to those policies that were put in place to cause the oppression that Libra talks about is really important to understand. Because I think now people still don’t understand that all these policies are what’s premised, and so when they do them every day, and they’re just part of how they grew up, then they don’t see them.

Mari Watanabe (00:58:44):

But if you look at our history, and you start thinking about the policies that were put in place and how they affected our communities of color, then you can start looking out at today and seeing how our policies today still suppress people. So, anyway, I think there’s a lot of opportunities out there for them to educate themselves.

Suzi Wear (00:59:09):

Thank you, Anna and then we’ll have Libra weigh in as well. So Anna, any recommendations for resources?

Anna Schaum (00:59:16):

Yeah, I want to just amplify what everybody said. But I want to lift up my colleague, Dr. Leticia Nieto. It’s N-I-E-T-O, she wrote a book in 2010, and I was in the process with her while she was writing this. She’s an immigrant from Mexico. She teaches up at St. Martin’s University in Olympia, Washington, on her website, I’m sorry, I don’t have the website itself. But if you will Google her name, Leticia Nieto, there’s some articles. If you click on the Learn More button, there’s a great article. I think it’s seven or eight pages, but it talks about intersections. And the book is called Beyond Inclusion, Beyond Empowerment. Because inclusion is a metric but to have awareness of the systems that are oppressive, whether they’re oppressive racially, oppressive gender wise, oppressive ablest, oppressive all the ways one can be oppressed and not even know we are being oppressed.

Anna Schaum (01:00:11):

So it’s so internalized, we don’t even know what’s happening, when it’s happening. It helps unpack that. And it helps us look at where, which skill set we’re coming from at any given moment. It’s completely non shaming. I think everybody on this panel would actually like it and she’s asked me to be a trainer. So I guess that’s my plug. I’m down here in Portland as a trainer and it’s changed my life. The work she’s done has changed my life. So-

Suzi Wear (01:00:35):

Thank you for sharing. What about you Libra?

Beach Pace (01:00:38):

I have one more suggestion.

Suzi Wear (01:00:39):

Oh, go ahead Beach.

Beach Pace (01:00:41):

I saw Libra said that she didn’t have any suggestions. I don’t want to jump. Are you cool? Yeah. Okay. I wanted to also recommend after COVID to get on a Fair Housing Council bus tour. That was absolutely transformative for me and understanding the racist history of Oregon. I needed a few days to come back from that. It was a day basically of touring around the Portland metro area, to sites and hearing from people who were there at the time. And it was mind blowing. So I’ve had some of my staff go on the bus tour, they come back equally mind blown and that helps us tremendously in our work. I also saw a question about do I think or do we think it’s important to set goals as far as DEI? I just wanted to touch on that, 75% of the youth we serve our kids of color. And that was a big issue for me when I walked in and we were 95% white female cisgender.

Beach Pace (01:01:54):

When our kids walked in the door, they did not see themselves reflected. And that was a serious problem for me in it. So it’s not a serious problem now because we’ve made great strides, but I’m not stopping. And I think it’s been alluded to earlier that this is an everyday thing. It’s like working out and eating. This is something you should do every day. In some form, educate yourself, get smarter about what’s going on in the world. And people who do not look, act, sound like you to make sure that you understand what the heck’s going on, and you’re not myopic. So for me, I’m not done for many reasons because of the kids we serve and because I just think it’s important work. So thanks.

Suzi Wear (01:02:40):

Okay.

Anna Schaum (01:02:44):

I would also add that I have on my website now, personal website, not Straub’s website. I’m willing to do a 30 minute chat for free pro bono for anybody that just has a question beyond this, that wants to talk about, “If my perspective can be helpful to you, what to do next.” I’m glad to have a conversation with you as an act of service to the community that’s shown out here today. I may not have the answers, but that’s on offer for me as an individual.

Suzi Wear (01:03:15):

Thank you.

Anna Schaum (01:03:16):

My phone number is there in the box.

Suzi Wear (01:03:18):

Yeah, there’s a lot of good discussion and resources being shared in the chat. So, actually, I’m going to shift to some questions, since we have 10 more minutes and I want to make sure that I address some of the questions that were entered. So, let’s see here. This is from an HR person. And it says, as an HR professional, I’ve refused to engage in changing the recruitment process to a process that targets groups of color until our executives are committed to addressing our environment. Well, I don’t think our environment is harmful to employees of color. I’m not sure. And I think it’s better to check the culture first before turning attention to recruitment. Is this the wrong way to go about change? What should we be addressing first? Right? And if the executive team is only willing to tackle one initiative at a time, how do you recommend prioritizing? That’s a loaded one. Anybody have any insight on that?

Libra Forde (01:04:23):

I’ll chime in. I think the first thing to acknowledge is why you particularly don’t want to take the route of recruiting more diverse personally. Just take a moment to reflect on a why of that, right, and the core values that follow that, and I don’t know what they are, you have to do that work yourself. And in anything in life, you always have to do that work. You always got to figure out where you’re coming from in making a decision because no one’s going to fix a decision for you until you really understand where you’re coming from. The second part is, I believe in making sure you have all in a system that needs to be changed in terms of the environment being more welcome because you can’t have the same lenses as you would have with all different types of people to change a system.

Libra Forde (01:05:18):

The system as it is now, is because of the people that you have now. If you bring in new individuals that have different walks of life and different cultural experiences, they will be able to shine light on areas that have been dimmed and put into the dark spaces quicker than waiting for the systems to shift and then bringing in the people. That is what the United States has done for decades. It doesn’t work in my opinion. You have to bring the people in that have the vision that you need to make the Change.

Suzi Wear (01:05:51):

Thank you.

Mari Watanabe (01:05:51):

Yes. Okay. I believe that you have to bring people in because they have to have a seat at the table. But also, if you don’t do the work and make the shift, they will leave. They will definitely leave your space. So it’s important to do both.

Beach Pace (01:06:19):

Yeah, it could come across as a chicken or the egg question. And the answer to the chicken or the egg question is yes. And I agree Mari, that if it’s not welcoming, that the people will leave, which is another indicator. But I lean toward action. And so why not do both at the same time, which is a really tough thing to do. And you have to have really tough conversations and sometimes that’s hard to do. I’ve left organizations because I looked up and I tried conversations and I was like, “This isn’t happening.” And I left. And my CEO was later arrested by the FBI. So it was a good call anyway, because I realized this wasn’t going to happen.

Suzi Wear (01:07:07):

Yeah.

Beach Pace (01:07:07):

And so sometimes you got to go. But if it’s a chicken or the egg question, the answer is yes.

Suzi Wear (01:07:15):

Okay. There’s another question for you Beach. When you began hiring for diversity, did you replace employees in existing positions? Or did you use attrition as the opportunity to diversify?

Beach Pace (01:07:27):

Well, great question. I think it was we added spots, right? We were growing which was great. But we did have some divorces. I had a couple of divorces to use Libra’s term that didn’t like the direction we were going in. And, okay. So some of it was because of growth and some of it was because of attrition, and some of that attrition was people wanted to go different places and some of that attrition was because they did not like what was happening. And I would say, there were two parts to that, some people didn’t like our commitment to being what I like to think of a fully functional team. And some people didn’t like the fact that we were also just increasing our standards of service. So a little bit of both is the answer.

Suzi Wear (01:08:23):

Right, thank you. There is a comment and a question here. It says during a recent discussion of diversity, equity and inclusion at my company, some folks were more focused on diversity of thought, rather than racial, gender or other diversity. Is there a way to address the diversity of thought? I don’t know who wants to tackle that one.

Anna Schaum (01:08:51):

I’ll speak to this real quick just from my point of view. We can think a lot of things, a lot of different ways depending on our level of consciousness, our education, what we understand about history, the capacity we have at any given moment to manage stress, overwhelm, heal our own traumas. One of the great benefits that Leticia has taught me about is these categorizations that society has put us in. And for those who have unearned privilege, it’s easy to stay indifferent unless it’s in the news, unless it’s in your face, unless the story is there and you can’t ignore it anymore, which is part of what I think is happening now. It’s very easy to stay indifferent.

Anna Schaum (01:09:32):

So if somebody is coming from indifference, talking to a person that’s a target status, who’s wanting to strategize, that’s not going to be that productive. I don’t think. It’s just going to end up in argument. So, really knowing where the thoughts are coming from, knowing how much awareness there is involved. It’s very easy for us to distance each other up and down away from. It’s easy for us to think inclusion is the end goal when it’s really about lifting up voices and repairing, restoring, because I think there are apologies that need to be made formally. So maybe there’s diversity of thought there, maybe those conversations can be included in what we’re talking about. I don’t know if that’s what the question meant but that’s my answer.

Suzi Wear (01:10:29):

Yeah. Would you all say that in your experience, race is the root of all that? Like you can’t not have that discussion? What are your thoughts on that?

Anna Schaum (01:10:45):

Well, I’m going to take up more space. I know I’m white body person taking up more space, but hopefully it’s useful. I’m also working globally with an NGO I work with and we’re having affinity group conversations. And I’ve been able to hold one for white bodies and one open group for whoever is willing to show up. There’ve been others for an African American group and all other people of color group. Racism is a deep systemic human problem. We’ve been dealing with in global way for as long as there have been our species. It’s still going on. What’s happened on American soil right now has given the rest of the world in a way permission to say this is a problem for us, too.

Anna Schaum (01:11:24):

So people globally are showing up to these meetings talking about it. Right now, we are talking about a history of slavery in the United States, people taken from, and if I’m speaking out of turn, call me out, but we have to acknowledge that. We have to acknowledge that there are systems based on slavery. If you haven’t watched 13th, and you’re really interested in learning this, we learned something about that, about our 13th amendment. It still gives a loophole.

Suzi Wear (01:11:58):

So thank you, Anna.

Libra Forde (01:12:00):

I just want to chime in on the diversity thought, especially because someone just called me out. So I guess I need to say something. But for me, if I’m in a diversity discussion about the potential of improving or changing or moving a culture in a different direction, and someone brought up diversity of thought as a impactful way to do it. I would question their motives, because it is important to add diversity of thought for all human beings. But at the end of the day, it does not fix the problem of representation. And so if there isn’t representation, you really can only have so much diversity of thought years ago, a comedian said his wife came to him and said, “Hey, we should homeschool our kids.” And he said, “Oh, there’ll be as dumb as we are.” And the point of that is you will only be as smart or as dumb as your group.

Libra Forde (01:13:00):

And so if you’re only representing a certain type, you will only be as smart or as dumb as that group. You need to have representation of all in order to see how the world functions to have a holistic culture within your environment so that your environment mimics what’s happening in the world, it should be a microcosm of the world. If you’re limiting what you see or think, then your business will not be as successful as you’d like. You will not have employees who are as happy and things that you are looking forward to doing will not be as successful as they could be. So for me, the term diversity of thoughts is a very weak response to the need to name the fact that there are racist problems within the system. And if I was there, and someone said that I would call them out and say that is a racist approach to this system. And so you have to rethink that. And representation starts that.

Beach Pace (01:14:04):

I laughed out loud at the diversity of thought comment. I really did. It’s ridiculous. And diversity of thought comes from diversity of experience. Right? So I’m not on board with that.

Suzi Wear (01:14:21):

Well, we are at time, and we could go on forever talking about all this stuff. Yeah. And we may look to offer future webinars because these are really important, good discussions to be having on an ongoing basis. So I wanted to thank all of the panelists, and you’re so generous and certainly inside the time to do this and share vulnerably, right, from your experience. I think we all have benefited from what you’ve shared, and I’ve taken some notes myself. And any questions that weren’t answered, if you want to email info@xeniumHR.com I can help follow up on getting those questions answered. The recording will be going out. And also feel free to check out our content page on our website. So thank you everybody and have a wonderful day. Hopefully the sun comes out and we can get outside and enjoy it. Take care.